Sven Roeder
10:18 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Barcelona had 70% possession today at home to Getafe
Managed 6 shots on target and drew 0-0
It’s about effective possession and that’s about keeping the ball and using it to create openings
Tapping the ball around the back is a waste of time and energy
As is giving it back to your opponents time after time
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gph
10:12 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Barcelona once went 136 successive games where they had more possession than their opponents.
They won the 137th 4-0.
I don't suppose Real Vallecano were ecstatic at having more possession.
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tnb
9:37 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Think back to the situation we were in at the end of Bilic's time.
What did we need? We needed to start winning games.
There is no way that having the bulk of possession yesterday but losing would have put us in a better position than what transpired. Common sense you'd think, really.
Steady the ship (done), start winning games (done), rescue the season (in progress), THEN we can start worrying about making it look pretty.
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Kaiser Zoso
9:31 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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We know.
We did better in that season, we were 36% yesterday
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:26 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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For further emphasis, that same season, Palace, who were stone bottom of the possessions stats table with 43%, actually finished ahead of Swansea in the PL.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:24 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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In 2013-14 Swansea had a magnificent 55% possession, joint top of the Premier League with Arsenal. We had a paltry 46%, the second worst in the league. Swansea finished 12th, one place and two points ahead of us.
I'm not sure that in itself it means much of anything.
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jack flash
9:10 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Possession in itself is a meaningless statistic
In theory, a side could have 100% possession by passing backwards & forwards to the goalie all afternoon!
Losing possession (especially in the middle third) would be a far more useful statistic & something that we do too much of, though improving
I can remember a World Cup Finals (the Rossi finals) when Italy had very little possession in most of their games, yet broke so quickly, effectively & with such accurate passing that they looked like scoring every time they had the ball (around 1980-?)
That said, I would love to see us really dominate the midfield & box the opposition in by pressing a high line, but we simply don't have the players able to do that
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Far Cough
8:32 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Takashi Miike 7:52 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
Deep joy
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Takashi Miike
7:53 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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*on*
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Takashi Miike
7:52 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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"I think the basis of any successful football club pretty much has to be firstly technical skill and possession (I see no alternative to that), but beyond that I'm really not sure of the best system. I think the club need to be absolutely laser-focused on the former, and flexible on the latter."
the definition of mumbo jumbo, sitting in the fence bollocks. stanley unwin would be proud
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New Jersey
7:25 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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I think we get too obsessed with stats, we all knew, well apart from Bilic and his team, that we weren't fit enough and didn't really need to see how many kilometres they had run.
If you had stats on Sir Trev, he wasn't great at tracking back etc, but he was one of the finest players ever to wear the claret and blue and if he and Keegan had been fit for the 82 World cup we would have come close.
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ironsofcanada
6:34 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Alex V 5:59 Sun Feb 11
If you didn't use shock openings and twist things endlessly, I would respect you for your ideal positions and hope in theories. You just have not in way provided evidence from past or present, why what you believe is valid.
We are rebuilding again, unfortunately. Fortunately (hopefully) it's not from the Championship. We needed to right the ship, we need to keep our players fit and as they come back and we bring the right players in, the passing and therefore possession will come.
I do agree with you that anything truly worth building takes time. I just think focusing on the cart before the horse, hijacks that process.
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El Scorchio
6:06 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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I'm not sure how much it matters as a raw statistic without knowing the score or other things about a game.
Low possession could mean you scored 2 in the first 5 minutes then just sat back comfortably to conserve energy, and finished up winning 2-0.
Conversely it could mean you got battered 6-0 and couldn't get near the ball.
Where it applies to us, i feel is that a lot of the time when we have the ball we give it away cheaply and unnecessarily. Anyone who goes to watch games regularly sees prolonged spells like yesterday against Watford (when it was 0-0, 1-0 and 2-0) where we couldn't get hold of the ball and when we did, it was often punted up field in panic by whoever got it without thought, when many times the was the opportunity to look up, get a foot on the ball and find a team mate.
Instead it just constantly went back to the opposition. This happened for prolonged spells against Palace and Bournemouth too.
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Alex V
5:59 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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ironsofcanada 5:46 Sun Feb 11
If we're agreed that good passing can/should be a good focus for every club, I'm happy enough. Playing a possession style does not have to exclude crosses or killer balls - I would argue it encourages them, because the more control you have, the more opportunity you have to pick out the right example of either.
Where I agree that systems differ is in terms of formations or emphasis. I strongly prefer systems that emphasise control of possession. But some possession systems can involve a high press or really quite direct intent. I think the basis of any successful football club pretty much has to be firstly technical skill and possession (I see no alternative to that), but beyond that I'm really not sure of the best system. I think the club need to be absolutely laser-focused on the former, and flexible on the latter.
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HairyHammer
5:49 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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If you watch MOTD it looks like West ham had 80% possession.
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pulhampete
5:47 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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What wins football matches?
Lack of possession it would seem.
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ironsofcanada
5:46 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Alex V 5:29 Sun Feb 11
"Again I don't recognise that description. I don't really class it as a system"
Of course it is a system, people chose to try to play football in different ways, we call those systems. For example, the reason you like trying to focus on possession, it is you think it is "reliable, repeatable," ie. systematic.
Enter the straw man.
"To want good passers of the ball is not some strange offbeat approach"
Everyone wants good passers, but they use them in different systems. The killer ball up field, or the perfect cross is not the best way to keep possession. So if you focus first on possession and the stat, you don't want you good passers to try those as often.
You then fill out the paragraph without some stuff we all know but add nothing to your point.
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geoffpikey
5:45 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Alex V,
You say: " I do wonder if clubs (and fans) get so swamped by their own problems that they fail to see the forest for the trees - they maybe lose sight of what wins football matches. "
You're describing YOURSELF!?
Newcastle still winning.37% possession.
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pulhampete
5:37 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Geoff - 35%!
Does that make them better or worse than us? I'm confused now....
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Alex V
5:29 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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Well for me, it's not about Moyes as such. I was very impressed by his Everton side - I think they get unfairly labelled as a direct side, they were by and large a well-schooled unit that worked very well and were effective. That's why he got a big job after it. If he's here long enough I would guess that's what he'd like to recreate here.
>>> You have been stressing your not so tried and true repeatable system before getting and keeping better players.
Again I don't recognise that description. I don't really class it as a system because that implies there is some logical alternative - it's simply the way that football is played effectively, as opposed to ways that don't work as well. I do wonder if clubs (and fans) get so swamped by their own problems that they fail to see the forest for the trees - they maybe lose sight of what wins football matches. To want good passers of the ball is not some strange offbeat approach - it's what every club of note wants (and the rest!). And every club of course needs players who have technical skill and intelligence to pass the ball and have a shape etc. Beyond that, any club has the same issues - how to get players who might turn a match, or are reliable and injury free, are strong and fast etc. And all the other actual difficulties of running a football club don't go away if you pass the ball well, they are still there.
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gph
5:27 Sun Feb 11
Re: 36% Possession at home v Watford?
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In 1985, we lost 5-0 at Watford.
At the time I was completely gobsmacked by how much possession (and how many chances) we had in a game with a scoreline like that.
I enjoyed yesterday far more.
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